2016 Presidential Democratic Primary Thread

[PIE-GUY]

You can petition absolutely anything at whitehouse.gov.

[runawayjimbo]

Woah, Bernie AND Lawrence Lessig on Maher tonight? That debate should be more interesting than the other night.

I can't wait to hear Bernie spout off on some anti-immigrant shit like, "we should have a reasonable policy."
Can't believe he said that shit!

Definitely a monster.

I mean clearly, the only two options are either a 2000 mile wall to keep out the rapists, or a complete fucking free-for-all.

And what is that "reasonable policy?" I've never really heard him address his plan so I peeped his website on the issue. I guess it boils down to amnesty, stopping deportations, and forcing employers to pay immigrants more. Which sounds kinda like open borders (except for that last bit about forcing employers to pay more) since it would sure as hell entice a lot more people to come here by any means necessary. No mention of the messy stuff like eligibility for benefits or how to address the 4.5 million people who are already standing in line waiting. In other words, while it may be humane, it's not really very reasonable. At all.

When you publicly state that you would prioritize Murican workers over foreign labor (as he did in that Vox interview), you are revealing your true intentions rather than just a bunch of really nice sounding stuff to post to your website. If Bernie wants to make the moral judgment that Murican workers are more worthy of the gov'ts benevolence, good for him (of course, that's not what he's doing; he's saying he supports all workers, but some more than others if you know what he means). But IMO, that is every bit as ridiculous sounding as Trump's biggest, classiest wall paid for by Mexico.

Do I think the average Trump supporter is more racist than the average Bernie supporter? Yes, I think that is most certainly true. But the policies that they are actually advocating (in addition to having zero chances of survival from a political standpoint) are equally as jingoistic, protectionist, and morally and economically ignorant in my mind.

would be interesting to see Obama have to deal with this if it gets the needed amount of signatures....
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-time-warners-network-cnn-purposeful-public-deception-regarding-bernie-sanders-campaign

Snopes says no. See poll here

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-cnn-poll/

Poll the Bern
CNN did not delete a poll that showed Bernie Sanders as the overwhelming winner of the first Democratic presidential debate.

FACT CHECK:  Did CNN delete a poll that showed Bernie Sanders won the first Democratic presidential debate of 2016?

CLAIM:   CNN deleted a poll that showed Bernie Sanders won the first Democratic presidential debate of 2016.

FALSE

Various sources are reporting that CNN deleted an online poll that shows Bernie Sanders as the winner of the first debate. Is this true?

ORIGINS:   In conjunction with the first debate held between contenders for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, held on 13 October 2015, CNN hosted a live poll on their Facebook page inviting followers to indicate who they thought had "won" the debate:

Shortly after the debate ended, reports began to circulated online claiming that CNN had deleted the poll, which greatly favored Bernie Sanders, in order to release an article proclaiming Hillary Clinton as the debate's winner:

Hillary Clinton proved without a doubt Tuesday night why she is the Democratic Party's presidential front-runner.

Clinton remained unflappable throughout the debate, showcasing her political experience and her command of the issues — all the while deftly handling criticism of her flip-flops and displaying a humor that put a more human face to her oft-criticized candidacy.

David Axelrod, CNN senior political commentator and the chief strategist for the Obama campaign that trounced Clinton in 2008, said she did "very well" and that her campaign was likely "thrilled with the performance."

"She was poised she was passionate and she was in command," Axelrod said. "If I were her campaign I would be thrilled with what she did tonight."

While it's true that CNN reported Hillary Clinton won the debate in their editorial content, CNN did not actually delete the results of the public poll that conflicted with their assessment. In fact, as of this writing the poll is still available for viewing on CNN's Facebook page. (One of the reasons people may have thought that the poll was deleted may have been that it was featured on CNN's Facebook page and not CNN's web site.)

Nonetheless, many readers were still left wondering how CNN could name Hillary Clinton as the victor of a debate that 81% of the viewing public felt Vermont senator Bernie Sanders had won. The answer is that real-time audience participation isn't a particularly rigorous scientific polling method; CNN instead based their reporting on the opinions of a panel of political experts, such as the above-quoted David Axelrod, who analyzed the candidates' performances during the debate.

[rowjimmy]

Online petitions, lol

[sls.stormyrider]

Axelrod and the other experts were impressed that Hillary is a "progressive that can get things done." Just like in 2007, when she was Senator, and went down to Wall St and said "hey, cut that out".

[emay]

In the grand scheme of things, Hilary seems like she would actually be able to come to middle ground with both sides of the house/senate.
Bernie would be a more modern day Jimmy Carter I feel like...he would propose a lot of "change" but not much would get through the rest of the loopholes to actually benefit anything. It would be a lot of back and forth and not much would get agreed upon or done.

[sls.stormyrider]

If there were truly an obtainable middle ground, I would agree. The powers that be, mainly on the far right, make the middle unobtainable.

[emay]

If there were truly an obtainable middle ground, I would agree. The powers that be, mainly on the far right, make the middle unobtainable.

Good point, I think if Bernie became pres he would def ruffle some feathers that need to be ruffled.

[Hicks]

I do not have high hopes that Hillary would be effective in office. 

Take the vitriol that has been aimed at Obama since day one and multiply it by 100. 

That's the level of obstruction she will have to deal with.   

[runawayjimbo]

If there were truly an obtainable middle ground, I would agree. The powers that be, mainly on the far right, make the middle unobtainable.

I hear this a lot, but what middle ground has the left been willing to concede on? To me it's just a lot of screaming and pointing fingers with very little willingness on either side to compromise. Of course, I'm just a no man in no man's land, so what do I know.

I do not have high hopes that Hillary would be effective in office. 

Take the vitriol that has been aimed at Obama since day one and multiply it by 100. 

That's the level of obstruction she will have to deal with.   

I don't disagree that if there is one thing that could unit the GOP clans, it's another Clinton. But do you really think it would be better with Bernie? Pretty sure Republicans would take just as much issue with his spend first, ask questions later attitude.

Of course, you can't respond to me so as not to disrupt your perfect post count.

[emay]

I think there could be middle ground found in the gun control issue but its almost like the right side is going turbo right in some cases by suggesting more guns be put out there to abate a shooter if one was to come into your classroom or campus than to limit any amount of guns or magazine clips or give any sort of background check. Which then makes nothing really be resolved and just a bunch of finger pointing at NRA or at the crazies out there with guns and so on.

[mbw]

Woah, Bernie AND Lawrence Lessig on Maher tonight? That debate should be more interesting than the other night.

I can't wait to hear Bernie spout off on some anti-immigrant shit like, "we should have a reasonable policy."
Can't believe he said that shit!

Definitely a monster.

I mean clearly, the only two options are either a 2000 mile wall to keep out the rapists, or a complete fucking free-for-all.

When you publicly state that you would prioritize Murican workers over foreign labor (as he did in that Vox interview), you are revealing your true intentions rather than just a bunch of really nice sounding stuff to post to your website. If Bernie wants to make the moral judgment that Murican workers are more worthy of the gov'ts benevolence, good for him (of course, that's not what he's doing; he's saying he supports all workers, but some more than others if you know what he means).

uh, he's running for president of what country?  prioritizing american workers, as president of the United States, is jingoistic?  racist?
i think you have blown a gasket duder, and owe Senator Sanders an apology.

[Undermind]

Woah, Bernie AND Lawrence Lessig on Maher tonight? That debate should be more interesting than the other night.

I can't wait to hear Bernie spout off on some anti-immigrant shit like, "we should have a reasonable policy."
Can't believe he said that shit!

Definitely a monster.

I mean clearly, the only two options are either a 2000 mile wall to keep out the rapists, or a complete fucking free-for-all.

And what is that "reasonable policy?" I've never really heard him address his plan so I peeped his website on the issue. I guess it boils down to amnesty, stopping deportations, and forcing employers to pay immigrants more. Which sounds kinda like open borders (except for that last bit about forcing employers to pay more) since it would sure as hell entice a lot more people to come here by any means necessary. No mention of the messy stuff like eligibility for benefits or how to address the 4.5 million people who are already standing in line waiting. In other words, while it may be humane, it's not really very reasonable. At all.

When you publicly state that you would prioritize Murican workers over foreign labor (as he did in that Vox interview), you are revealing your true intentions rather than just a bunch of really nice sounding stuff to post to your website. If Bernie wants to make the moral judgment that Murican workers are more worthy of the gov'ts benevolence, good for him (of course, that's not what he's doing; he's saying he supports all workers, but some more than others if you know what he means). But IMO, that is every bit as ridiculous sounding as Trump's biggest, classiest wall paid for by Mexico.

Do I think the average Trump supporter is more racist than the average Bernie supporter? Yes, I think that is most certainly true. But the policies that they are actually advocating (in addition to having zero chances of survival from a political standpoint) are equally as jingoistic, protectionist, and morally and economically ignorant in my mind.

would be interesting to see Obama have to deal with this if it gets the needed amount of signatures....
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-time-warners-network-cnn-purposeful-public-deception-regarding-bernie-sanders-campaign

Snopes says no. See poll here

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-cnn-poll/

Poll the Bern
CNN did not delete a poll that showed Bernie Sanders as the overwhelming winner of the first Democratic presidential debate.

FACT CHECK:  Did CNN delete a poll that showed Bernie Sanders won the first Democratic presidential debate of 2016?

CLAIM:   CNN deleted a poll that showed Bernie Sanders won the first Democratic presidential debate of 2016.

FALSE

Various sources are reporting that CNN deleted an online poll that shows Bernie Sanders as the winner of the first debate. Is this true?

ORIGINS:   In conjunction with the first debate held between contenders for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, held on 13 October 2015, CNN hosted a live poll on their Facebook page inviting followers to indicate who they thought had "won" the debate:

Shortly after the debate ended, reports began to circulated online claiming that CNN had deleted the poll, which greatly favored Bernie Sanders, in order to release an article proclaiming Hillary Clinton as the debate's winner:

Hillary Clinton proved without a doubt Tuesday night why she is the Democratic Party's presidential front-runner.

Clinton remained unflappable throughout the debate, showcasing her political experience and her command of the issues — all the while deftly handling criticism of her flip-flops and displaying a humor that put a more human face to her oft-criticized candidacy.

David Axelrod, CNN senior political commentator and the chief strategist for the Obama campaign that trounced Clinton in 2008, said she did "very well" and that her campaign was likely "thrilled with the performance."

"She was poised she was passionate and she was in command," Axelrod said. "If I were her campaign I would be thrilled with what she did tonight."

While it's true that CNN reported Hillary Clinton won the debate in their editorial content, CNN did not actually delete the results of the public poll that conflicted with their assessment. In fact, as of this writing the poll is still available for viewing on CNN's Facebook page. (One of the reasons people may have thought that the poll was deleted may have been that it was featured on CNN's Facebook page and not CNN's web site.)

Nonetheless, many readers were still left wondering how CNN could name Hillary Clinton as the victor of a debate that 81% of the viewing public felt Vermont senator Bernie Sanders had won. The answer is that real-time audience participation isn't a particularly rigorous scientific polling method; CNN instead based their reporting on the opinions of a panel of political experts, such as the above-quoted David Axelrod, who analyzed the candidates' performances during the debate.

it's nice to know that CNN, whose parent comany is Hillary's 7th largest donar, thinks she won based on what their inside the box thinking analysts think instead of the people who are going to be voting.

[Undermind]

Woah, Bernie AND Lawrence Lessig on Maher tonight? That debate should be more interesting than the other night.

I can't wait to hear Bernie spout off on some anti-immigrant shit like, "we should have a reasonable policy."
Can't believe he said that shit!

Definitely a monster.

I mean clearly, the only two options are either a 2000 mile wall to keep out the rapists, or a complete fucking free-for-all.

When you publicly state that you would prioritize Murican workers over foreign labor (as he did in that Vox interview), you are revealing your true intentions rather than just a bunch of really nice sounding stuff to post to your website. If Bernie wants to make the moral judgment that Murican workers are more worthy of the gov'ts benevolence, good for him (of course, that's not what he's doing; he's saying he supports all workers, but some more than others if you know what he means).

uh, he's running for president of what country?  prioritizing american workers, as president of the United States, is jingoistic?  racist?
i think you have blown a gasket duder, and owe Senator Sanders an apology.

what a jerk Bernie is!!! I mean thinking of the middle class American when creating policy?!!!  I mean not many politicians think this way so it must be wrong/racist.

[sls.stormyrider]

If there were truly an obtainable middle ground, I would agree. The powers that be, mainly on the far right, make the middle unobtainable.

I hear this a lot, but what middle ground has the left been willing to concede on? To me it's just a lot of screaming and pointing fingers with very little willingness on either side to compromise. Of course, I'm just a no man in no man's land, so what do I know.

agree to a point. Clearly, there are people in both parties who care more about party and power than they care about you and I.
But I think if you look back over the last 4 admins, the GOP seems to be clearly more obstructive.
2 govt shut downs
a record # of fillibusters.
getting rid of their own speaker because he's too moderate

hell - if Obama says that he likes an idea that a republican thought of, the GOP all of the sudden hates it
(ex Gregg bill on a deficit commission, appx 10 co-sponsors until Obama said he liked it, "death panels" were originally a GOP idea, ACA actually with GOP hatched ideas)

and then, there's this that I posted on the other thread
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/us/politics/latest-unease-on-right-ryan-is-too-far-left.html?_r=0

the bottom line is that if a GOP member of Congress ever worked with a Dem, the tea party / extreme right will vilify you and try and get you voted out.

[rowjimmy]

Most of us who were, um, hopeful when Obama went into office have seen time and again the left coming toward middle ground. ACA is a perfect example of this.